This forum uses cookies
This forum makes use of cookies to store your login information if you are registered, and your last visit if you are not. Cookies are small text documents stored on your computer; the cookies set by this forum can only be used on this website and pose no security risk. Cookies on this forum also track the specific topics you have read and when you last read them. Please confirm whether you accept or reject these cookies being set.

A cookie will be stored in your browser regardless of choice to prevent you being asked this question again. You will be able to change your cookie settings at any time using the link in the footer.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pypilot working on my Nicholson 44
#21
(2020-04-02, 09:37 PM)KipHansen Wrote: Andreas ==>

Thanks for all this information.  I too am replacing on old Robertson, and have the same NECO drive motor (only mine is 12 VDC) and the same, I assume, motor controller in the blue box mounted to the motor.  All this on our 1974 42' Solaris catamaran.

My big question is:  Do you find  that the drive motor eats up the batteries -- sucking them down on long continuous use of the autopilot?

I am considering replacing the motor with a more efficient modern one, like:

https://makermotor.com/pn01007brkt-50-rp...h-bracket/  (with appropriate sprocket for the #40 chain).

This new motor is rated at a "Rated Load: 60 Watts"

Any ideas or suggestions? 

(Obviously, the easiest thing to do is what you have done and just keep the old NECO motor....but...power usage?)

Thanks,

Kip

Hi Kip,

here mi ideas/suggestions, but have in mind that i´m not an electronic master ....

The neco drive is an masterpeace of work, and if you decide not to use it you might sell it at ebay for a good price.
It consists of the geared Motor, an electromagnetic clutch and the motor dirver in the top box and sometimes end of travel swiches in the round side cover. More information you have here, great work by Daniele Fua.

http://www.nicholson38.org/wp-content/up..._35DR8.pdf

The old neco motordriver cosists of three relays, two for the amature and one for the clutch, you have the shematics in the above link.

I dont know if your motor driver is still orignal. I have changed mine  into an pololu driver (mentioned in erlier posts) and an SSR Relay for the clutch. I think this is a important power save compared to the old relays of the neco.

So if you decide to use the old neco driver you will be fine with an raspberry and an arduino, but you will need some transistors/mosfets to engage the old relays of the driver, as I guess they draw more milli Amps than the arduino will give !!

Or you change to a modern motordriver, like the pololu or seans (hidraulic?) one. This gives also the posibility to use PWM so you will be able to reduce power consumption  eaven more.

You will have to know enough of electronic and how to deal with the compund wound motor of the neco and its shunt and series coil. 

You use an new motor:
I would then go for an Hydraulic ram drive, but it is expensive.

Your makermotor is missing a CLUTCH to engage/disengage the drive. 
I don´t know if the 60W is strong or fast enought, if you make it faster you will lose strength (vice versa).
I think there are also 90W ones.

If you want to go long distance cruising mayby you go both ways and as you have to rasperrys y and have two indipendent systems to have redudancy.

Last the coment to the power usage, I´m happy with the Pypilot/Neco. The clutch uses permanently maybe 0,5 A and the motor only when driving 3-4A. As I have 400W solar pannels it is enough for me ..... I might still reduce more if I go deeper into the PWM for the clutch and the driving of the motor.

I guess that the powersave of a new motor consists in the driver electronic not in the drive itself, for a given strength/spee you will need the Watts ....

Hope this hepls
Andreas
Reply
#22
Andreas ==> 

Great information on the NECO drive motor and controller.  Any idea what the NECO RPM is?  (at the sprocket?)

What speed did you find necessary for the drive motor. (The MAKEMOTORs come in 100 rpm also.)

I am at somewhat of a disadvantage as I am in New York and the boat is in the Virgin Islands -- one of my sons is self-quarantining there.  Thus, I can't do the normal things like open the controller box and all and just look for myself.

I was thinking of using Sean's regular motor controller to throw the relays . . . .

You you have a diagram of how you hooked up your pololu driver from PyPilot output to the NECO motor?

And, one more, you don't think Sean's motor controller ( https://pypilot.org/store/index.php?rt=p...uct_id=124 ) would do to drive the NECO drive controller directly?  All it must do is switch one of two relays (port and stbd) and one relay (SSR) to power the clutch in "auto-pilot on" mode.   I would add an "emergency AP off" switch at the helm to interrupt the clutch power for emergency hand steering.    It seems to me that the NECO control could then be left as-is (not any power saving this way, but far simplier!)

I do so appreciate your help and experience. 

I would be glad to try out any design you might think is better -- the only difference in our systems is the voltage (your 24 to my 12 VDC)

All my best,
Stay safe,

Kip
Reply
#23
(2020-04-03, 06:21 PM)KipHansen Wrote: Andreas ==> 

Great information on the NECO drive motor and controller.  Any idea what the NECO RPM is?  (at the sprocket?)

What speed did you find necessary for the drive motor. (The MAKEMOTORs come in 100 rpm also.)

I am at somewhat of a disadvantage as I am in New York and the boat is in the Virgin Islands -- one of my sons is self-quarantining there.  Thus, I can't do the normal things like open the controller box and all and just look for myself.

I was thinking of using Sean's regular motor controller to throw the relays . . . .

You you have a diagram of how you hooked up your pololu driver from PyPilot output to the NECO motor?

And, one more, you don't think Sean's motor controller ( https://pypilot.org/store/index.php?rt=p...uct_id=124 ) would do to drive the NECO drive controller directly?  All it must do is switch one of two relays (port and stbd) and one relay (SSR) to power the clutch in "auto-pilot on" mode.   I would add an "emergency AP off" switch at the helm to interrupt the clutch power for emergency hand steering.    It seems to me that the NECO control could then be left as-is (not any power saving this way, but far simplier!)

I do so appreciate your help and experience. 

I would be glad to try out any design you might think is better -- the only difference in our systems is the voltage (your 24 to my 12 VDC)

All my best,
Stay safe,

Kip
Hi Kip

The rpm shoud be 17.5 RPM .... look here:
http://clubnauticat.dk/wp-content/upload...nheder.pdf


Speak to Sean to see if his reular motor controler will be able to drive the motor and the Clutch, his hydrolic one should do.

Erlier on I had an link ti scratch.pdf with the hoockup to a pololu and the clutch with wich also feeds the series coil. You could also use a rectifier bridge so 

I f you dont change the Neco Motor driver it should work with Seans controler, but to make shure , he should have a look at the wiring diagramm of the neco.

To better understandig: the RPI goes to an Arduino Nano and that to the Motor-Driver ----- Seans motordriver has the arduino inside ..... if you keep the Neco motordriver you can use Seans motordriver OR an arduino nano with transistors or mosfets to have the power for the Neco motordriver.


Greetings form Spain .... an other "hotspot"
Andreas
Reply
#24
The regular controller should drive relays fine, but doesn't have a clutch output to drive the armature coil. If you want the two coils in series you may need a full bridge rectifier for one of them.

I have found that permanent magnet motors are more efficient than universal motors so you might want to consider this.
Reply
#25
Sean ==> 

Isn't there some output from either your pypilot motor controller or tinypilot computer that can be used to trip a relay  (SSR). . . some output that says "Autopilot Engaged"?   One that might be used to light an "AP ON" LED or -- in my case -- drive an SSR to engage the NECO clutch and be interrupted by an "Emergency AP Disengage" switch?

In an earlier email you said:   "My motor controller has a possible clutch output to engage the autopilot.   I recommend you wire a switch in series to this clutch to avoid a situation where you cannot steer."

That was my plan.   I hope that is still possible. 

Kip
Reply
#26
Just asked Sean same question.
You can wire it into pin 11 on the arduino (motor controller) using 2 resistors and a mosfet. I ordered a logic level mosfet with 5 volts gate, expect deliverance next week. A 560 ohm resistor between gate and io pin to limit the current from the pin and a 10K ohm resitor between gate and ground.

Cheers,
Matthieu
Reply
#27
mlvg ==>

Hey, great!   Don't suppose you could make a sketch/diagram of the wiring you will use?  (and part numbers?)

Thanks!

Kip
Reply
#28
   

Hi Kip,
Sean uses mosfet type NCEP60T18 in his motordriver, but the exact type isn't important, as long as it has a 5 volt gate (N-Channel) and can handle enough power (at least 15 amps at 12 volt). I ordered a IRLB3036PbF, will receive it in a couple of days. Will keep you posted
Reply
#29
mlvg ==>

Terrific -- great.  That's just what I needed.....

I've got my parts coming from Sean now -- and will have to test everything out on my son's little Rhodes 22 with tiller steering first, then cob together the refinements needed to transfer it to our 42 ft cat -- which in the USVI at the moment (that;s the boat the the NECO driver).

First the PyPilot autopilot,as above, then put together a full OpenPilot onboard computer, adding in all the other sensors....

Kip
Reply
#30
Fascinated by this discussion. I'm fitting one of Sean's Tinypilot/Motor controller combis to my Nicholson 38 which has the Neco drive. I'm going to start with keeping the Neco relays etc. Sean's motor controller has clutch output so I'll use that to switch a relay to engage the clutch. Glad to see that the Neco works with TinyPilot.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)