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New raspberry pi OS released
#11
(2021-11-17, 01:52 PM)Sailoog Wrote: I am afraid I share Raspberry developers opinion. There are only specific and small improvements over Raspberry OS 32bit and I would prefer to keep RPi 1 compatibility because they sold millions of units that we need to keep alive or everyone knows where will those boards end.

Completely agree, little performance to be gained from 64bit and only on certain machines/apps, no point really.
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#12
32 bits is a dead-end road. Some applications are no longer supported in the 32 bits format.

With more memory you need 64 bits.

On my other 32 bits systems I get frequent the message 32 bits is no longer supported.
The latest Ubuntu and Debian Bullseye version for the RPI are also 64 bits for ARM 64.
And also work with most of the OpenPlotter additions.

Bram




(2021-11-17, 03:00 PM)PaddyB Wrote:
(2021-11-17, 01:52 PM)Sailoog Wrote: I am afraid I share Raspberry developers opinion. There are only specific and small improvements over Raspberry OS 32bit and I would prefer to keep RPi 1 compatibility because they sold millions of units that we need to keep alive or everyone knows where will those boards end.

Completely agree, little performance to be gained from 64bit and only on certain machines/apps, no point really.
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#13
I agree, 32 bits is a dead-end road for desktop and laptops and even other embedded systems like Raspberry but Raspberry is a special case.

Raspberry community is huge and you can find tons of blog posts, forums, tutorials, manuals... we have fed from these sources to learn and create OpenPlotter. But Raspberry org is not Debian or Ubuntu, they can not maintain 32 and 64 OS, they have to focus on just one. Dropping support for 32bit and focusing on 64bit has a high price to pay for little performance to be gained. The environmental consequences and the loss of community support are reasons enough to stick to 32bit in my humble opinion.

Maybe the problem is that we are using Raspberries in our boats and it is not what they were created for. They were created to empowering young people in impoverished countries. Maybe we should start using other OS for Raspberry or even use another hardware but I do not think OpenPlotter would exist on that context because I do not think the community would be big enough to feed a project like OpenPlotter with modest resources.

We will see what finally happens, I think that keeping an eye on the evolution of other systems is a good solution at this time. Having a robust OpenPlotter image under Ubuntu as the official image would be good for everyone but the way to get there can be difficult, or maybe not, we will see...
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#14
(2021-11-17, 04:26 PM)Sailoog Wrote: I agree, 32 bits is a dead-end road for desktop and laptops and even other embedded systems like Raspberry but Raspberry is a special case.

Raspberry community is huge and you can find tons of blog posts, forums, tutorials, manuals... we have fed from these sources to learn and create OpenPlotter. But Raspberry org is not Debian or Ubuntu, they can not maintain 32 and 64 OS, they have to focus on just one. Dropping support for 32bit and focusing on 64bit has a high price to pay for little performance to be gained. The environmental consequences and the loss of community support are reasons enough to stick to 32bit in my humble opinion.

Maybe the problem is that we are using Raspberries in our boats and it is not what they were created for. They were created to empowering young people in impoverished countries. Maybe we should start using other OS for Raspberry or even use another hardware but I do not think OpenPlotter would exist on that context because I do not think the community would be big enough to feed a project like OpenPlotter with modest resources.

We will see what finally happens, I think that keeping an eye on the evolution of other systems is a good solution at this time. Having a robust OpenPlotter image under Ubuntu as the official image would be good for everyone but the way to get there can be difficult, or maybe not, we will see...
Hi Sailoog,

I'am running here Ubuntu Hirtute 64 bits, Ubuntu Impisch (no serial input yet), Debian Bullseye 64 bit with most of the OpenPlotter extra's. Also with OpenCPN and the SignalK server. All for ARM64.

What is the problem of the new releases for the very populair navigation purposes ?
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#15
(2021-11-17, 05:24 PM)verkerkbr Wrote: Hi Sailoog,

I'am running here Ubuntu Hirtute 64 bits, Ubuntu Impisch (no serial input yet), Debian Bullseye 64 bit with most of the OpenPlotter extra's. Also with OpenCPN and the SignalK server. All for ARM64.

What is the problem of the new releases for the very populair navigation purposes ?

Not having a supported 64bit raspberry pi OS makes it a bit irrelevant doesn't it?
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#16
Sorry but I have to insist. Debian bullseye for arm64 is stable but OpenPlotter needs to dress that vanilla Debian version with a graphical interface and the name of these graphical interfaces are "Raspberry OS" or "Ubuntu for Raspberry" and both are beta versions.

The main problem of Ubuntu or Raspberry OS for arm64 is relying on beta systems. In my experience you can not publish a stable version for wide distribution of any software running on a beta system, that is a nightmare.

I have already talked about the problem with OpenCPN and arm64 (you are forced to run opencpn for flatpak adding lots of extra MB or run opencpn for ubuntu/debian for arm64 without plugins) but I can not enumerate the rest of problems with the rest of parts of OpenPlotter for arm64 because I did not even started to work on it. I know this is not easy to understand but only when you are on this side you are aware of what means maintaining a project like this one.

OpenPlotter's human resources are limited and we are not even able to have good documentation. Migrating OpenPenPlotter 2 from buster 32 to OpenPenPlotter 3 for bullseye 32 will take months. We can only accept the commitment to test the changes from time to time in Ubuntu for Raspberry 64bit but we will not do the same with Raspberry OS 64bit because that is wasting time. The same day Raspberry OS bullseye 64bit is stable, all OpenPlotter 3 code and tools for Rsspberry OS bullseye 32bit will work on it with small changes.
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#17
@Bram
How about you fork https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen/tree/arm64 , then write some scripts and provide support for OP@arm64. You seem to be very capable
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#18
(2021-11-17, 06:40 PM)BlackSea Wrote: @Bram
How about you fork https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen/tree/arm64 , then write some scripts and provide support for OP@arm64. You seem to be very capable

No, I am just a simple user. But like to try new developments. Now running Debian Bullseye 64 works well but no Oesenc plugin yet.
Ubuntu Impish 64 works well but no serial module in the kernel. Most things work. The earlier version Ubuntu Hirtute 64 works well, also with the OpenCPN flatpak version, the Oesenc charts with usb plug. Some OpenPlotter items like Serial.

AIS reception with the DSR-RTL dongle is also working. Not to be seen on the screen.

Here an impression of the sceen.


Attached Files Image(s)
   
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#19
(2021-11-11, 06:48 PM)Sailoog Wrote: This is always hard to say. 1 or 2 months I think.
There is a lot of work but we do not start from scratch because we use the same tool chain that Raspberry guys to build OP images and there are not many changes in OP python code. Most of the time spent is building and testing betas and everyone can help a lot here.

Thanks Sailoog, I'll be glad to help out where I can.

Paul
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#20
Did some test with the latest 64 bits Os's. This is the outcome as mentioned on the Cruisersforum:

I have tested the OpenCPN 1129 beta version on several Linux systems:

1. Linux Mint AMD64. All options are working perfect. Oesenc plug 0.9.042. OpenCPN is also working on the flatpak version.

2. Ubuntu Hirtute 64 on the RPI 4. Almost everything is working perfect but no Oesenc plugin for the "non-flatpak" OpenCPN version. Flatpak works very well including the Oesenc plugin.

3. RaspiOS based on Debian Bullseye 64. Works on both versions with the 1129. No Oesenc plugin and no OpenGL available. Switching OpenGL to on, the system flips away at the start of O. But the sceen movements are still very fast.

4. Debian Bullseye 64. Same results as 3. But working also very fast.

All the RPI OS's can be run from an SD, SSD or from a fast 3.1 usb stick.

On most of the RPI versions I have added some of the OpenPlotter extra's. Also on the AMD64 version of Linux Mint Uma.

Ubuntu Impish 64 also works, but lacks a driver module for serial connections.

All systems are working with the Flatpak version of OpenCPN. Is only available for 64 bits. Flatpak has a big advantage. No need to use a special version for a different OS. And the OpenCPN software runs in a separate envirement (Sandbox).

Bram
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