Nell's AP - Wheelpilot + OctopusRS or JefaLD100

[rgleason]

Dear Sean,

Last night we arrived home and found your package. Thank you. Everything appears to be there, Tinypilot AP, Medium Power Controller, keypad, remote and even a battery for the remote.

I've been thinking about how best to install the MC and AP controllers to power my old Raytheon Wheelpilot (and eventually a new robust under deck AP via a double pole switch). The old control was located at the stern by the wheel below the seat on the port side. There is a hole there now about 3.5" diameter. This location is somewhat inconvenient, but I could locate the Tinypilot Display behind  4"x 4" x 1/4" Clear Plexiglass and then mount the keypad on top of the plexiglass with a waterproof wire exit. 

The plexi edges would be bedded in buytl tape and secured with small bolts. The motor controller would be mounted inside the port locker right next to the the Tinypilot and screen.  This would keep all the critical parts and wires away from weather and water. I will cover the plexi when the AP is not in use with the old Raymarine cover.

Do you think with this configuration the wifi will be able to pick up 0183 nav data from my router?

I see the motor controller has a 20a fuse and nice big capacitors. The Terminals are clearly labeled and it looks well made. I like the "Pypilot" labels.  That remote is going to be very handy when I am out of the weather and under the dodger! What kind of fuse would you like me to put before the  5v-3a converter for theTinypilot AP? If anything?

Thanks for the nice looking job, I'll inevitably have some questions as I get into the installation, but it looks pretty straightforward to me. 

Best, Rick

[seandepagnier]

Rick,

glad you received everything.  Your plan sounds perfect.   Protecting everything from the elements is a great idea.   The computer is in a waterproof enclosure but I do not suggest permanent outdoor mounting without more protection similar to what you mentioned.

It should pick up nmea 0183 with wifi.   It can be configured as a tcp server or client, and wifi access point or station.

As for fuse on the usb supply, typically no fuse is required.   There are poly fuses and other protection on the board itself, but putting a 5-10 amp fuse would not hurt.

Keep us posted on your progress.  It would be great to get feedback from someone who I know loves to analyze and compare different configurations and settings!

[rgleason]

Thanks for the wifi and fusing advice. I just need wind data and perhaps waypoint. I suppose I could also hardwire from nmea0183 output to the Tinypilot USB with a converter/adapter but those appear to be expensive.

I suppose another way to send the wind and nav data would be to connect with an android cell or tablet running opencpn and pypilot_pi connected to Tinypilot, but I don't think that is possible now and I am not so sure it would be useful.

Sean, I was reading about use of electric car power steering motors on page 10/63 https://pypilot.org/doc/pypilot_user_man...lot-client and found one at evwest https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_i...cts_id=363 and their document says

"One important thing to note: Because the motor isn't designed to handle extremely high power for
extended periods of time (for example, turning from lock to lock repeatedly while the vehicle is
stationary), the EPS system will protect itself by limiting the amount of current commanded to reduce system temperature — and unfortunately, limiting assist in the process." Which makes me wonder if it is good for heavy seas.

On that same page 10/63 there is a picture of a windshield wiper motor with a 3d printed toothed drive. I watched one of your videos of this working on the pypilot website and thought it was doing a great job. I wonder how big a boat is it and how does this do in heavy seas? Is it fast enough? I am guessing that with the right electric car steering motor, you might have adequate power and speed.

I was intrigued by the $86 linear drive in your manual that you linked to "3500N 300mm stroke 170mm/s speed 12V 24V DC Electric linear actuator with potentiometer position feedback 350KG load LAT5P"
Max Load 3500N 350KG 770LBS
Output Power 96W
Input 12V 24V DC
Stroke 300mm 11.81 inches
Max Speed 170mm/sec 6.69 inches/second
Limited switch Has
Working duty 25%
Customized Yes
IP IP65
Retracted length=Lmin=155+Stroke=155+300=455mm 17.91 inches.
Fully extended = Lmax=Lmin+Stroke=455+300=755mm = fully extracted 755mm = 29.72 inches.
Lmax means the length when linear actuator 100% fully extends, meanwhile,it will touch the head limited switch and stop automatically,very safe.

With a 10"-8" tiller arm this drive would probably work on Nell. It is very difficult not to think about this alternative.
Is it well engineered and robust enough? How long have you used it? I can't afford to have it fail because I'll have to empty the port and starboard locker and crawl down to fix it! (I do notice from the excellent tables provided, that with heavier and heavier loads, this drive gets slower and slower, which I expect is just the way all of these drives work, including JefaLD100 and OctopusRS in varying amounts.)

[rgleason]

This is a Dropbox share link which shows my intent for Tinypilot Installation. See the notes on the image.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/3rurhx9qe...6h3i3&dl=0

Sean wrote:
"It should pick up nmea 0183 with wifi. It can be configured as a tcp server or client, and wifi access point or station."
Yes, good. I note that the manual touches on configuration, but it is not entirely clear to me the best approach.
1. Using Android Cell phone + Opencpn + Pypilot_pi I can connect to Tinypilot?
2. Using Android Cell phone Browser I can use the the Tinypilot web interface via TCP to set & control Tinypilot.
3. Wifi Router sending Nema Data (wind, nav waypoints) --> Tinypilot wifi (What is the best way to do this?)

Sean wrote:
"..fuse on the usb supply, typically no fuse is required. There are poly fuses and other protection on the board itself, but putting a 5-10 amp fuse would not hurt."
Will power all of it (Tinypilot via 3a5vdc converter, 12/24vdc Keypad which uses 433mhz wireless & Motor Controller with a Panel breaker, would 10a Breaker be ok? or should I find a 20a breaker?

[seandepagnier]

I make usb to nmea adapters:
https://pypilot.org/opencart/index.php?r...duct_id=52


You can send nmea data to pypilot as a tcp socket. If you have the data in opencpn you can just add a connection for example. Ideally I would not rely on an android if possible.

For powering the motor controller I would suggest 20 amps. Also, that linear drive I linked, the high speed one is probably not the best fit for your boat as it does not have a lot of force. I can suggest alternative drives that are much more powerful, but I thought you had a hydraulic system planned?

[rgleason]

Thanks Sean,

Later I will probably be getting your nmea adapter! Will get a 20a breaker.

Yes I have planned an OctopusRS installation (under deck) for the Bristol 32 which will work without interfering with my port locker sail and battery storage. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3dbqa4cuz...l0oar&dl=0 In think you've seen the drawing in this Dropbox folder for Pypilot. https://octopusdrives.com/products/type-...at-drives/


I am also going to see if the Jefa LD100 or Garmin Class A (same but Garmin includes the Jefa rudder indicatior) mechanical linear drive will work. The Jefa Ld100 https://www.jefa.com/steering/products/d...linear.htm is more powerful than the OctopusRS and may be faster than the OctopusRS on a short arm, but it requires 32" which makes it pretty tight in the stern of this boat, so I am not sure it will fit, within the plane of the tiller arm (with the tilted rudder shaft). It also has a better specs data table (Power amps, Torque Nm, Speed (lock to lock 70 degrees) and has an excellent motor design.

I am open to your suggestions, as these commercial drives are pretty expensive, but it needs to stand up and be robust and reliable.

Best, Rick

---

Here is the link for viewing my dropbox Pypilot folder. I just added the Detailed Drive spreadsheet as it stands right now.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/3rurhx9qe...atxmq&dl=0

[rgleason]

Sean,

I like the very thorough manual, that covers just about everything, including suggestions about how to set the gains and use profiles for various conditions. The only thing I can suggest right now is a kind of Startup Summary for people just installing Tinypilot (see the doc below for some ideas).

I think I have tinypilot and powered keypad almost installed in the original location of the RM Autopilot controller, (see pics almost installed https://www.dropbox.com/home/Pypilot) but this may be moved somewhere close to the companionway where I can see it using the remote control too. (I have never liked where it is now as the screen is difficult to see.)

When I powered up there was a message about "no main controller" which confused me a bit. I know there were LED lights but don't remember what they were.
I was able to select various menus, and tried calibration but it was taking a long time, so I turned the power off, and then back on and it restarted and came to the first screen. I couldn't control the wheelpilot.

What should I check if the motor controller is not being recognized and I am just seeing a Red Led and not seeing Green and Yellow flashing (Data transmitted with Tinypilot) and white or blue (Controller is engaged and commanding the motor.)?

I've reread the manual several times, trying to understand the Power Up and Startup Process. I've written what I think should be done in "Pypilot Tinypilot Initial Power up and Startup.docx" which will be uploaded to https://www.dropbox.com/home/Pypilot

Do I understand correctly that I need to "Configure" and the best way to do that with a Tinypilot is to wifi connect to it using OpenCPN on a laptop with the Pypilot plugin which has an automatic connection feature?

Then what Calibrations should I do of these? All of them?
• level - select only when the boat is level with the sensor mounted
• heading - adjust the heading offset of the compass
• lock - locking the compass calibration
• rudder - calibrating the rudder feedback.

Then I guess at that point I should be able to control the Wheelpilot manually and be able to set it into AP Compass or GPS mode?

Which leads me to the next question, how is it best to get the GPS signal and Nav route and WP data piped into Tinypilot? I have another wifi router with all the boat data on it (ais, depth, wind, gps) and I have it being sent via TCP Connection to my laptop and cell phone (after I have connected to that wifi SSID) so when Opencpn is runthe boat data including AIS appears. How would I get tinypilot to log onto that wifi? Or is there another way to do it? I would rather not have to have my cell or laptop running Opencpn and connected to tinypilot.

Or should would it be better to order your USB to serial dongle to have that data hardwired to the wifi router (which also has nmea0183 connections?)

Thanks,
Rick

[seandepagnier]

This is a most annoying issue. I know I tested the board for communication and ability to move the motor before I sent it.

So the motor controller you see only red light? Did you ever see flashing lights or have communication? Are you sure the data cable between computer and motor controller is good?

For calibration, you must level it once mounted in the boat. After a circle should be completed and the compass readings should be sensible. At this point you might decide to lock the compass so it will not update once the calibration is correct. In theory this should never be a problem, but sometimes in rough seas it is observed to find a new "fix" when it should not unfortunately.

As for data input. I would suggest starting with opencpn just have it send the data to pypilot. If you have the plugin enabled you can easily do this by "forward nmea" or alternately without the plugin (or this option) by making a tcp connection to pypilot from opencpn port 20220 and selecting output on this port (as nmea repeater or autopilot)

[rgleason]

Sean I am on the boat trying to get this working. The AP is on. I see a green Led to the right of the screen. The screen says no motor controller. Their is 14.2 volts between the + and minus power at the mc board. The keypad and dc converter are powered from there. They both work and have power.
I have turned power off and unscrewed the white comms between mc and tinypilot. The connection all looks good and secure and tight and properly aligned. I reconnect it and turn power back on, same porblem .

I am reluctantly taking it off the boat now because I am unable to see the screwn where I placed it and we have this mc issue that needs to be resolved. I am sorry, i was looking forward to using it.
I will have to find a better location towards the center of the boat, in a protected spot.

What should I do next at home with 12vdc power available?

[seandepagnier]

Maybe you can try again. Let me know if you can't get it to work. Make sure the motor controller has a red light.

If the motor controller is powered first, then you plug usb-c power to the computer you should see yellow light, then once booted flashing yellow and green lights.